CO129-074 - Lieut. Governor Caine & Sir Robinson - 1859 [6-12] — Page 332

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Chairman,-Did he state anything further?

(4)

Mr Lyons,-Nothing. Chairman, Do you remember the date of the last fire? Mr Lyons,―The fire took place about the end of March

this year.

Chairman, When was this conversation?

papers of rent paid at the Government Offices on several lots-not 206, but, I remember, lots 241 B and C. They were certificates of rent paid the Government by Mr Caldwell on account of a Chinaman. The papers had a Chinese name, but I do not recollect it. The papers for lot 206 he told me were in the hands of Mr Stace. I told

Mr Lyons,—Between the 15th April and the 1st May him then to see to the nuisance, and to get the drainage

Cross-examined,——

Chairman, Do you recollect any further conversation with Mr Caldwell near Augustine Heard & Co.'s?

Mr Lyons,-No.

Chairman,-Do you recollect Mr Caldwell telling you that he had mentioned the matter to the Surveyor General? Mr Lyons,-I do remember some conversation at that time, the purport of which was, that Mr Caldwell had spoken to the Surveyor General concerning the building of the front wall,

Chairman, Did Mr Caldwell say that he or some one else was going to build the wall?

Mr Lyons, I do not remember Mr Caldwell saying that any one else was connected with the property.

Chairman, Are you certain that Mr Caldwell spoke of himself with reference to the matter?

Mr Lyons,—I am quite certain that he did. He did not refer to any other property; he said he would speak to the Surveyor General on the matter.

Chairman,-Have you, within the last few days, been actively employed in making any inquiries regarding Mr

Caldwell?

Mr Lyons,-No, I have not been actively employed, and have not been instigated to make any inquiry concern- ing Mr Caldwell.

Chairman, Do you know Choeng Assow?

Mr Lyons, I know Assow the Road Surveyor. Chairman,--Have you been to him lately to inquire for

a man named Lum Ateen.

Mr Lyons,-Yes.

Chairman, Why?

Mr Lymns,—I went round yesterday to lot 206, and found that the space where the honses abut was filled with filth, also 241 C and B. I inquired who rented the

attended to.

Chairman, Will you tell the Commission if you ever saw Lum Ateen before?

Mr Lyons, I do not know him. Chairman,-How did you find where he lived? Mr Lyons,-The tenants told me. Chairman, Where was it?

Mr Lyons,-In a lane at the back of Circular Buildings. Chairman, Have you any means of knowing what occupation Lum Ateen follows?

Mr Lyons, I do not know—he was dressed well when I saw him first.

Chairman,--Why did you not go to Mr Caldwell, as you supposed him to be the landlord?

Mr Lyons, I went to Lum Ateen, because he was the nearest, and I thought it possible the houses might have changed hands.

Chairman,Did you go to any one else?

Mr Lyons,---I went to Yee Wo Fook the Coffin-maker, and asked him if he was the owner of lots 211 B and C.

He told me that he was not-that he rented them from Lum Ateen. Lum Ateen told me that he owned all the lots, and that he sublet lots 241 B and C to Yee Wo Fook. Chairman, Have you within the last few days had any conversation with any Chinese females concerning Mr Caldwell?

Mr Lyons,-Yes.

Chairman,-What is the female's name? Mr Lyons, I think her name is Lin-hee. Chairman, -Who is Lin-hee ?

Mr Lyons, She is the owner of some property in Tai- ping-shan. She was building some houses there, which she asked me to look after because she was anxious to get the roofs on before the wet weather set in. I stayed

houses of 241 C and B and 206. I could not find out there some time, and asked her if she was not a relation of Mrs Caldwell. She said, No, she was not a relation, but they had been companions from childhood together.

and was told the parties were out. I then directed the attention of the tenants to the nuisance, and asked them who their landlord was.

Some of them told me Samkwei Mr Caldwel!], and some of them told me Lum Ateen.

Chairman,―Have you auy recollection how many

houses there were?

Mr Lyons, There were five or more. Some said that te proprietor was Yee Wo Fock the Coffin-maker. I went to Lum Ateen, and asked him if he was the owner. He told me, Yes, that he was owner of all the lots. I then thought that he was not telling the truth, and asked if Mr Caldwell was not the owner. He said, No-that

past.

he himself had been the owner for twelve months

I spoke to him through an Interpreter. He produced some

I believe from what I see that this woman is a Procuress.

she had not spoken to Mrs Caldwell since she lived in the She said that they both came from one place, Macao, but

station. I asked her if the knew Shaplok, a female. She said, Yes. I asked, was she a sister of Mrs Caldwell. She said, No, that she was a sort of godsister. I then told her not to forget to put on the roof as soon as she could, as we might have some wet weather.

Chairman, Had you any conversation with any chinese female?

Mr Lyons, I do not recollect any conversation.

other

(5)

Chairman,-Have you had any conversation with any Chinamen on the subject?

Mr Lyons,-Yes. Chairman,--With whom?

Mr Lyons,-Awai, formerly an Interpreter at the Police Station.

Chairman, When did this conversation occur? Mr Lyons, This morning. Chairman,-Where?

Mr Lyons,-In Queen's Road West. Re-examined,

Chairman for Mr Caldwell,-Had you any particular reason for inquiring about Lin-hee's relationship?

Mr Lyons, She said she was a poor woman; to which

I said, you are Mr Caldwell's cousin. My question con- cerning Shap-lok was merely an idle one.

Chairman,-Were the names Lin-hee and Shap-lok given you by Mr May?

Mr Lyons,-He asked me some days ago if I knew the parties, and I said that I knew them by repute.

Chairman,—Did Mr May ask you to make the inquiry? Mr Lyons,-No. He asked me if I knew them. Chairman, What was your conversation with Awai? Mr Lyons, I asked him if he knew Shap-lok. He said yes; I asked who she was, and he said she was Mrs Cald.

well's sister.

Chairman. Did you make any further inquiry? Mr Lyons,-No. That was the only conversation about Mrs Caldwell.

Chairman,--Was that an idle question?

Mr Lyons-I asked him because he is a man who knows almost everything about Hongkong.

Chairman,-Have you been lately at the Gaol making inquiries about Mr Caldwell?

Mr Lyons, I have-two days ago. Chairman, What inquiry did you make?

Mr Lyons, I inquired concerning the man Beaver, hav- ing some reference to Mr Caldwell.

Chairman, of whom did you make this inquiry? Mr Lyons,-1 made it of the convict Boggs, because I felt convinced that he was with Beaver in the employ of Akwai [the pirate], for whose apprehension a reward is offered; and to learn as to the truth of a statement made to me by Beaver after he had been released, and whether he knew who was in possession of the paper which was laid on the table of the Supreme Court at the time of his (Eli Boggs') trial.

Chairman,--Did you get your information? Mr Lyons, I did.

Chairman, Had that paper any reference to Mr Cald well?

Mr Lyons, It was stated by Boggs to have been written by Mr Caldwell.

?

Chairman,--What were the contents of that paper Mr Lyons,—I do not know personally what the paper I was anxious to obtain the paper, thinking it might be of service to myself.

was about.

Chairman,-Was it with a view to give evidence before the Commission concerning Mr Caldwell?

Mr Lyons.--No. It was only with a view to protect myself.

Chairman,--Did

you get the paper? Mr Lyons,--No, I did not. The fact is, I have been in a lorcha myself, and I believe that most people who have been in lorchas have an inward feeling that Mr Caldwell

can do them injury at any time; and I wished to get the paper to protect myself. I had no idea of being brought before this Commission.

Chairman,--To whom did the lorcha in which you were belong?

Mr Lyons --To Achong, the P. & Q. Co's Comprador. Beaver was with Akwái, not with me.

Chairman,--Have you any cause for the belief concern- ing Mr Caldwell?

Mr Lyons,--Yes. I had always heard that Beaver had been with the Rebels, and not with pirates. After Beaver was released from jail, I asked him why he went pirating. He said he did not go pirating. I then asked how he

came on board Akwai's lorcha. He told me that he was formerly in the employ of Ma-chow Wong; that in coming ashore from Ma-chow Wong's lorcha to see Ma-chow Wong, he was told that he (Ma-chow Wong) had gone with Mr Caldwell to buy guns for Akwai's boat, and that the order from Ma-chow Wong was, to go on board Akwáï's lorcha, where he would find him. He went on board Axwai's lorcha, and they took him out to sea. I can prove that Beaver said this, by another European who was present at the time.

Chairman,--Do you know in whose employ Beaver was before he was in Akwai's?

Mr Lyons,-In Mr Caldwell's, in the lorcha Kee-loong-

poon.

Chairman, Do you know who her part-owner was? Mr Lyons,-Her register gave Mr Caldwell as the sole

owner,

Chairman,-Do you remember a piracy committed by Beaver on Achong?

Mr Lyons, I only know it from hearsay. Beaver told me that he went on board Achong's lorcha, and asked whom the lorcha belonged to. They told him it belonged to Achong. His party then agreed with a party on board Achong's lorcha for a gun that was on board. He (Beaver) told them that the gun was sold, and an order for the money passed on some person in Hongkong.

Chairman,-In what way would Boggs's paper have enabled you to make your defence if an accusation had been made against you?

Mr Lyons,-In case of my being brought up, I wished to be able to shew by it that Mr Caldwell was connected with those sort of people himself. The paper was said to be written by Mr Caldwell, and recommended Ma-chow Wong, Mr Caldwell's brother, to the notice of the pirates for the purchasing of provisions and othea matters,

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